jgnat: how do you do that? Very funny. The point is what , when , how does anyone say something that will not just be blah...blah....blah. Our family and friends did have an experience that means something. Perhaps the witnesses will still only hear blah..blah..blah when we share it. That is O.K. with us. At least we tried when it was our turn a bat. We might be like "the mighty casey" or we could hit one out of the park. No matter what happens we will not be guilty of doing nothing. Casey struck out, but he was there to do his best.
Make Lemonade
JoinedPosts by Make Lemonade
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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Make Lemonade
whathappened: Thanks. I must have been posting while you commented.
missfit brought up: any updates?, and taking a righteous stand.
There are a lot of things going on. If we get our wish you could be hearing something in the future. If the watchtower "pulls a rabbit out of their hat" then maybe not as much, but we all can hope. The resolve around this neck of the woods is to do something rather than nothing. If we can share our expeirences then the Watchtower will be embarrassed. Will this have a big impact? Who is to say. We just have to try no matter what.
When my wife and I read your comment about a righteous stand we talked about it. She is taking a righteous stand herself. My wife is experiencing the cost of doing the right thing. This is what I wanted to comment on since this morning. When you look at all the people who acted in harmony with their conscience it is inspiring. My wife, Manuella Dorman, my daughter in law, are all people doing the right thing and paying a price for it. My wife and I see the same resolve in so many people. Ones we talk to face to face and those who come on here and tell their story. Those who post videos, write books, give testimony in court, and others.
Some people have just been able to see more behind the curtain than others. That just means that those who have seen more, should be the ones who do more. It is just a matter of chance. Being in the wrong place at the right time or right place in the wrong time. What one does to satisfy his conscience is not always what someone else should do or can do. Any way, that is the way we see it at this time. We are not going back. We are no longer looking for the "spiritual man". That ship has sailed a long time ago. You elders who know who I am, and know the truth, and are doing nothing. Well, let me ask you this: Do you have freeness of speech? I am not addressing elders who I do not personally know. I am speaking directly to the elders who I looked in the eye and talked to.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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Make Lemonade
jgnat: as usual a great point. Humans have a lot of unspocken comunication. Think Gang colors, signs, tatoos, etc.. If you think about it witnesses have a lot of unspocken rules. What is submission, brazen, loyalty, etc.. Each trade union has their loyalty. On the construction site you pick that up right away. One time I brought my very small construction equipment to a witness project. Right away the jokes about the "size" of my "equipment" were being made. Well the way I was able to get the job done saved the project a costly delay. At the time the cost per day was $7,000. Most of the time you can handle lack of respect by just getting the job done. No words just actions.
What causes me the most distress is saying or doing something that will cost someone else a great deal. To accidentaly reveal a detail that allows the elders to D.F. someone else. It is a constant concern that I am still dealing with. I am going to say and do more about my experience. I am also sure that the elders know exactly who I am on here. That is no problem to me personally. In fact they should worry about what I plan to say. It is the others in the truth who want to leave, but are also trying to save their loved ones. Tough problem for all of us. Say to much and it causes pain. Say to little and it causes pain.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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Make Lemonade
Those pork chops are stubborn. I have only gotten them to 165. So I have another 15 min.. Since I am D.F.ed I do not want to talk with witnesses without full disclosure of my standing. My thinking is not to force anyone into a decision that they did not really want. So smiling, being peaceful inside, has been enough for me when someone I know comes into view. One time at Home Depot a long time associate was approaching the area I was in. He was a union welder. Not a personality that is weak. We had brief eye contact. At first I thought maybe I should let him into the area by leaving. Then I just let this peaceful feeling take over and I said to myself, No, I have every right to enjoy myself and finish deciding to buy the tool I was looking at. When I looked up with this smile on my face, he was long gone. I mean like he disapeared into thin air. My smile became even bigger. Just have to be peaceful and happy. The agressors just go away.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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Make Lemonade
LongHairGal
I have to check the pork chops soon. They are thicker I guess. I turned the stove up to 400 and set the timer for 15 miniutes. Anyway, its funny about the guy I did not allow to live with us. I was just on the phone with him. At his core he is a great person. Drugs turn him into someone else. We have had hours of convesation recently. I have lost sleep over his position. That night I wrote about has more details. When I told him to call the elders, I also tolded him to call me back it they would not respond. Since anticipated the elders would not help. I found a homeless shelter withing 10 miniutes walk from where he was. If he would have called me back I was prepared with a practicle solution for him. Motel Six was another alternative.
Just recently he tolded me that the elders did not offer help. He reached out to a "worldly friend" and found a place to stay. When the drug issue came up, he told me that since the night we talked he has not used at all. I believe him because he is back to his drug free self. Anyway he knows that he cannot choose to associate in any way with me if he is to have any chance to get back with his wife. He knows that I have some temporary work he could do, but will not accept it at the cost of loosing his wife.
Last thing I said to him was to call anytime if he wanted to join me in the "Dark Side". He undersood the joke and laughed. We talked for a good while and I think he will be alright. It is a relief to me. At the same time it just shows how lacking the Watchtower is when it comes to helping people who do have real problems. It could be health, mental, drug dependance, you name it. The elders and G.B. do not have the real experience to help the people who are in need of the more knowledgable professional types.
Also, the no co-dependant thing came up. Since a clear firm line was drawn with him about drugs he was able to stop using.
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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Make Lemonade
I pushed the submit button before commenting. My wife says I cannot mult-task, LOL
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
-
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Make Lemonade
Hello MissFit: Thank you for asking. Thank you for the encouragement. Sorry it took 2 days to get back to you. Yesterday we got up extra early to travel to work. We had to be on time. To do that we also had breakfast and lunch pre-prepared. That all went very well for us yesterday. Now comes this morning. Since I forgot to turn off the alarm my wife and I woke up extra early again this morning. My wife still was going to work at her job. It was easy to put breakfast and lunch together for her. Well, then my wife had time to make a "honey do" list for me. I objected mildly to the list that was getting longer. However, I am in the middle of getting many of her requests done.
So far I have watered "her" plants. She wanted me to make "my pork chops", instead of putting them in the slow cooker. She is right about the pork chops being better baked. Anybody could do it. Instead of broiled you can use olive oil to coat them and then cover them with crushed bread crumbs. I use a rolling pin to crush the bread crumbs. Add Italian seasoning, Then bake for 30 to 45 miniutes at 350 to 400 degrees. You have to experiment with your stove. Mine takes 45 miniutes at 375 at least. I check them with a thermometer to make sure. They are very rich and moist. Those are in the oven now.
I will be making at least one more comment today. My wife put it on my to do list. We had time to look on JW.net together this morning. She wanted me to say something in response to your questions. If I have watered her plants, made the pork chops, gone shopping, and made the comment she wants I will be pretty much done with most of the "honey do" list.
What I wanted to convey in this first response is we are working at being normal. It is not always easy. Plenty of sad things to weigh us down. This morning and yesterday are a response to not being "squezed into the Watchtowers mold for apostates". Life is to be enjoyed even if you have to work at it.
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Hi to all! I come to visit
by Truth and Justice ini decided to stop over for a visit to see how everyone is doing.
it seems that there are more people coming over to visit this site.
so many new faces and people with so many stories to tell.
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Make Lemonade
Thank you Truth and Justice for your positive words. It was encouraging to wake up this morning and read them. You have been out for 25 years and are still waiting to help the other half of your family. Your actions speak volumes to me. Your comment, "So all I can say is be patient, and yes, I hate the word "Patience". Wow! What can I say? Amen? Exactly? Right now I do not have the words to express my reaction to that sentence.
Let me explain:
At present I am taken in so much information that confirms the damage done to people by the watchtower. Not just from a distance, but up close and personal. Real people who are looking me in the eye. People I have known for years. People who are right now in very difficult circumstances. People who are in need of help beyond what the organization is even capable of giving. They need answers right now. Like, where are they going to live? How are they going to make money to eat? Why are the family in their life not following "what the Bible teaches?" "Why are the elders not doing what they are instructed to do?"
When we talk I not only hear their words, but can see their pain deep inside. It is not just the words. It is looking deep into their eyes and actually feeling what they are going thru. In the past I gave answers that helped them cope. For one person, the help my family gave, was money, a job, association etc..
Now think about this: These people know I am D.F.ed. Yet, they are looking for answers from me? What does this say about the elders they are dealing with now? I know the answer to that question. I know these elders from the inside and the outside. Personally the case is closed.
So I think I have said enough about your post to convince you that I appreciate it very much. You give me something to hope for and acknowleged the frustration of haveing to be patient. In reality I am the one getting therepy form being allowed to comment about why I agree with what you said. Even though I could just go on I will just say one more thing.
Thanks
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Bethel Doctor on radio station WBBR speaks about the "Abrams Treatment" (1924)
by VM44 inthe following information might be of interest to some.. the watchtower used to own the wbbr radio station located on staten island, new york.. dr. mae work was an osteopath who worked at bethel during the 1920s and '30s.. in 1902 she received her do diploma after attending a two year course given by the bolles institute of osteopathy located in denver, colorado.. she was also a proponent of the abrams method of diagnosing and treatment of disease.. in 1924 she gave a radio presentation on wbbr about the "abramstreatment" this was followed a few years later in 1928 by a presentation on "osteopathy".
from the "new york times".
radio programs scheduled for the coming week.
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Make Lemonade
You posted a picture of the book "Demonism and the Watchtower" by Roy Goodrich. I read this book. What sticks in my mind the most is the way the society dealt with Roy Goodrich and his wife. If they posted their experience on JW.net it would be read with great interest. Roy was speaking out agianst practices of the leadership in high places. He was disfellowshipped for it. Also, his wife was remonved as a pioneer. Later the leadership agreed with the position Roy Goodrich had taken in the first place. So these two people had their lives ruined for taking a stand agianst what proved to be wrong.
Adding to the sadness, is the fact that Roy Goodrich's wife was removed as a pioneer. How did she respond? She continued to put in pioneer hours. She did it for Jehovah not men. That fact adds to the evil of past leadership in their harsh judgement to dissfellowship a truth teller. So yes, history is important. Especially when you can see a pattern of wrongdoing by the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses. Also, a pattern of no accountability for these kinds of actions. It happened in the past and continues to happen in the present. If you are or have been an elder consider this. When you sat in judgement of a wrongdoer, what were you told to do about a "practicer" of sin. Could not this same principle be applied to the the organinzation? I say yes.
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Bethel Doctor on radio station WBBR speaks about the "Abrams Treatment" (1924)
by VM44 inthe following information might be of interest to some.. the watchtower used to own the wbbr radio station located on staten island, new york.. dr. mae work was an osteopath who worked at bethel during the 1920s and '30s.. in 1902 she received her do diploma after attending a two year course given by the bolles institute of osteopathy located in denver, colorado.. she was also a proponent of the abrams method of diagnosing and treatment of disease.. in 1924 she gave a radio presentation on wbbr about the "abramstreatment" this was followed a few years later in 1928 by a presentation on "osteopathy".
from the "new york times".
radio programs scheduled for the coming week.
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Make Lemonade
Thank you VM44
Trying to make sense out of why so many witnesses are attracted to "alternate" therepys is one of my projects. In my experience there is a connection between the present and the past. This information can be invalueable to a person considering the use of one of these treatments. The society has taken what I call a "hands off" approach on many of these "controversial medical treatments". Essential Oils, aromatherapy, almond extract as a cancer cure, supplements, and E.M.D.R. are examples of what I have had to research in my "office of overseer". My stand and advice to the sheep was stay clear. I had the priveledge of given two service meeting parts. One part was on supplements. The other was on essential oils. I could not believe the complaints from so many witnesses. I was the one who was dealt with by two bodies of elders for the things I said about essential oils. So much nonsense!
One thing about all of the above treatments, in my experience, is that they are all responsible for harmful results. E.M.D.R. is taught in at least one Universtiy that I know of. The class carrys 5 units toward a degree. Personally I would strongly recomend you avoid E.M.D.R. That is my opinion, but it is also a warning that I feel morally compelled to make. What VM44 is bringing up about the history of medical treatment and the watchtower society is valueable. What the Golden Age endorsed in the past is now easily dismissed as a joke. Learn from this history and stay healthy. As an active witness you could be approached by a witness who is making money by selling you one of the above products. Like me you could see the individual given parts on assemblies. Even being allowed to say that his "business" gives him freedom to pioneer. Will you take his assembly parts as an endorsement of his product? Will you choose essential oils over seeing your doctor? I urge you to see your doctor and say no to essential oils.
My comment is not to debate with anyone about the benefits that many people claim come from these treatments. My post is to recognise the value of the information that VM44 has made available. "He that forgets history is bound to repeat it" Your health and your families health is important. Do the research before you chose a treatment just because you "trust" the organization. The organization has taught foolishness in the past. In my opinion they are not the intellectual leaders on medical treatments today either. Make up your own minds based on your own research.
Good health to you